MRT commented on The BJJQ? Jan-16-2020 4:09 PM UTC
James you mention BJJ as a crucial part of MMA , i ll say Grappling in general is and not BJJ in particular and by that i mean Submissions is the crucial part . The best Grappler in MMA who mauls everybody with his grappling abilities is Khabib a Combat Sambo guy from the place with the best freestyle wrestling in the world.
Even in 1993 in the most successful MA promo ever (UFC 1 promoting BJJ) Royce was not using BJJ Pyjama middle class rolling (aka "Jits“) but Vale Tudo in a gi. The top guys in grappling and mma may do bjj but they cross train ,on the other hand the average bjj guy has bad to zero wrestling ability , is not good without the gi, probably sucks at lower body submissions (remember when leg locks were not suppose to work?) was not raised on the mats like Rener and Ryron Gracie, oh yes and he hasn't been hit in the face yet thinks bjj is the non plus ultra of fighting.
James the Vale Tudo fights i have seen are more Punching / Smashing than anything else (both BJJ and Luta Livre guys) , even though they were bare knuckle, to some extend that was the feeling i got from seeing Lethwei fights compared to Muay Thai fights.
"...and is also the perfect marketing art for the sissy who is unwilling to get punched"
you summed up it perfectly , may i also add the feeling of belonging to the winning team / family.
PS. A question for a non youngster non flexible heavier dude , for his striking should said person work on his boxing or try to learn Muay Thai?
Sir, I will not dispute anything you write here and would add that top MMA pros for 20 years now have been hunting for the standup win.
Why is this when you could get a bonus for either KO of the night or submission of the night?
Perhaps it is because grappling requires so much aerobic and anaerobic stamina?
Boxing or Muay Thai?
For bucks, I like boxing first, then Muay Thai, mostly because Muay Thai is so good for conditioning and hip health and the foot jab and low kick are functional in MMA and self defense, and particularly weapon fighting. When one begins fighting with weapons the utility of the kick as an adjunct method—since your need one hand on a weapon and one hand open to check or both hands on the weapon, essentially adds an extra weapon to your arsenal.
However, for bulls, especially silverbacks, since punches are more important than kicks, and since punching is much safer for the old, the heavier and or the inflexible to train, than kicking, boxing takes it over kickboxing.
The primary tactical considerations for survival and kick training are:
Minor
Kicking always fixes your position. So, against a blade or a group your are scoring and then getting taken down or trading kicks for stabs.
Major
For survival you want a lot of training avoiding, enduring and countering the most likely attacks. The single most likely attack begins with a the punch and ends with a punch.
The least likely attack—behind punching, slapping, grabbing, pushing, stabbing, shooting, clubbing and running your ass over with a vehicle—is the kick.
Kickboxing is devastating, especially in a match fight, but has very little practical application in a mugging or pack attack situation.
Boxing teaches you a relatively low commitment attack and counter attack, requiring minimal athleticism and also prepares you for the single most common attack.
Yes, boxers get creamed by kickboxers in kickboxing, but are far less likely to be taken to the ground in a pack attack, which is now the most common general category of violence committed by strangers.
Now, both types of combatants are far more likely to be shot than the normal person. So don't advertise your ability in handgun zones.
The most important survival aspects of boxing, are, in order of importance:
-1. the ability to take a punch and stay cool
-2. ability to maintain footing and balance while being shoved and bumped
-3. development of time and measure
-4. ability to hit hard without fixing your position or exposing your chin
Good luck with your training, MRT.
"Kickboxing is devastating, especially in a match fight, but has very little practical application in a mugging or pack attack situation."
It depends on the kickboxer's boxing game, haha! Seriously, though, elbows can put a guy down really quickly but obviously you have to be very close.
Agree with everything else you said. Agree with what you said on the last thread about jits. If you pull guard in a street fight, the guy's friends are going to stomp your brains out. If you mount, you get stabbed by the guy's girlfriend. Stay on your feet. Better yet, avoid it in the first place.
Thanks James for the fast and thorough answer
thank you, and a man who put me in a standing shoulder lock stick sparring ahs just sent in a response which will be posted asap.