http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6821 Paleface Forum: A-1
http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6839 Man, Woman Sentenced for Terrorizing Partygoers
FYI. James asked me to look into the case of Jose Torre et al down in Douglas County Georgia for him. Apparently a lot of young white nationalists thought he wasn’t sympathetic enough to these people’s plight when they ran afoul of the law and received lengthy prison sentences. So I looked into it and my take was that that ship was already holed below the water line and was sinking fast, so it was not something on which you wanted climb on board. I knew it was not a cause that James would find it in himself to respect or admire and said so. In my estimation is was too messed up to rationally defend, despite the fact that the sentences imposed were excessive and unjust. There are plenty of other cases out there of whites being persecuted that can be defended with greater certitude. Way too many others. Especially ones you can defend without having your judgement called into question. Well this position outraged some WNs who thought James and I threw those folks in Georgia “under the bus” for no good reason. One of this blog’s frequent commenters, “Sam J.”, was particularly incensed. I posed some questions to him to get some clarification on what was bothering him to better address his concerns. He obliged.
So dear blog readers, for your information and entertainment I will share this correspondence with you. With James’ permission, of course. Here are parts of Sam J.’s comments and my overall response.
Jeremy : Sam J., you are being very vague and unhelpful. I for one can’t figure out what you are really driving at. Other than that you are displeased that we (James, Ishmael and myself) are not reacting to this case in a way you believe we should. On top of that you are putting words in our mouths. You are inferring insults where none have been made or have in any way been intended. That is how Jews typically act incidentally. Is that the way you want to be perceived? Like a Jew? I don’t think so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HREIul7EquE Family Guy Peter, Mort and Quagmire Interrogation -Jewish Miranda rights.
Tell me then, what would you consider to be appropriate moral support for Jose Torres and Kayla Rae Norton? I’m not trying to be a smart ass here. I am sincerely attempting to solicit an honest straightforward answer. Clearly we think differently about this issue as a consequence of our different priorities and sensibilities. This is your opportunity to instruct us all Sam J.
For example what statement would you most like to see the James LaFond.com website make regarding the case of Georgia versus Jose Torres, Kayla Rae Norton, et al?
Sam J. : "...Sam J., you are being very vague and unhelpful..."
The main beef I have is in no way vague. You purposely belittled and insulted these people because they don't meet your definition of toughness. You're using the "story" of the State that is oppressing them and us to define and explain what went on. I repeat again. They did not purposely go to these kids house to interrupt their birthday party. They were riding around the county and were attacked by stone throwing Negros. It's perfectly reasonable to defend yourself with a shotgun if people are throwing stones at you. It may not be liked by the state and fit in with their crush the White Man stance but it's reasonable. All of you are giving them moral cover. There's another situation that's very similar. American stick Man. He was just released. Why. He wasn't thrown under the bus like you guys did these people.
"...Tell me then, what would you consider to be appropriate moral support for Jose Torres and Kayla Rae Norton?..."
First stop attacking them. Stop belittling them. Stop acting as if they don't deserve the right to protect themselves form people attacking them.
I think it's extremely likely that if they had a better lawyer they wouldn't be in place they are in. If they would have had the same support as stickman I bet they wouldn't be serving 35 years. I sincerely doubt they thought or anyone thought that they would get so much time. it's an outrage. It seemed to even stun the Niggers.
"...You are inferring insults where none have been made.."
Your words,"...sad case in which some foolish and childish white people...".
I stand by all my other statements of how your "brilliant plan" to attack the Leftist ruling elite, the Deep State Communists, the Globalists, “the Woman”, is bound to failure if you dump on, ridicule and declare not worth the trouble anyone who fights back and doesn't live up to your "standards".( Once again I admit I'm so stupid that some points of your brilliant White defense plan escape me).
"When you want to help people, you tell the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell people what they want to hear." - Thomas Sowell
Fair enough Sam J., thanks for that. Ok, I gave you a fair hearing, but now I’m going to have to disappoint you again. Bottom line up front: I haven’t changed my mind. So if you believe that James and I are just old hard-asses, too harsh and judgmental, with standards of deportment for whites that are way too high, well that is just too bad. Not going to change. But hey, I’m just a humble associate blogger, you don’t need my approval if you feel you want to “do something”. You don’t need James’s endorsement either. Just do it! If you don’t think my observations or advice have any value, then don’t pay any attention to them. Do something else. Show some initiative young man. Keep in mind our adversaries the white SJWs, the dindus, the Deep State bureaucrats and others don’t need any marching orders, they KNOW what to do already and they are doing it. Nobody can prove anybody told them to do anything (at least ‘til Project VERITAS and WikiLeaks, but even that evidence has yet to result in any indictments). Lesson Learned. Frankly I’m inclined to suspect that you are trying to trick us all into inciting violence on this blog so the security organs of the Deep State can shut it down. Is that what you are Sam J., some kind of agent provocateur? The fact is we don’t know who or what you are. We certainly can’t take your word for it if you are not an enemy agent. That is an example of playing it smart, or at least not being dumb and letting your enemy sucker you into an obvious trap. Yes I have high standards for playing it smart and not making unforced errors in this game when such could all too easily get you thrown in prison with the dindus for a long, long time. As we have just witnessed in Georgia. So don’t do that! If you support what went down there then I must seriously question your judgement. Your motives as well.
Now I have some other points to make in regard to how ill-conceived and ill-advised this escapade was such that it can serve only as an example of what not to do, but for the sake of space and the benefit of our readers, and as always with James’ permission, I will expound further in a blog entry.
1. First of all the timing of the “Respect the flag” parade was ill conceived being undertaken a month after the Dylan Roof murders. If they would have held the rally in their own neighborhood, on their own lawn, it would probably have come off peacefully and just been a curiosity to the local TV news (good publicity). But since they choose to enter into black neighborhoods with their truck convoy flying the “stars and bars” they guaranteed there would be an ugly confrontation, both with blacks and with the police. Given the political climate at the time it was guaranteed that once any confrontation with blacks ensued law enforcement would land on them with both feet. Clearly they had no plan for actions on contact with the enemy. Then they got suckered into a confrontation in the hood in front of a house hosting a child’s birthday party that they could have and should have driven away from. Instead they got video-taped pointing guns and shouting the n-word at the party goers. The video evidence is what got them indicted by the grand jury and then convicted and sentenced to 35 years collectively. The video evidence was obviously so damning that Torres’ and Norton’s defense attorneys were unable to put any kind of good face on their actions or even get any clemency for them. Lesson learned: if you are holding a demonstration make sure some of your own people are making video recordings of events to tell your side of the story. Don’t let your enemy’s side of the story be the only one that people get to hear and don’t let your enemy bait you into doing and saying things you’ll come to regret later.
2. Sam J. Your words,"... “…sad case in which some foolish and childish white people...".
Yes, I did say that. I apologize. Believe or not I did not mean that as a gratuitous insult. Poor choice of words on my part. On reflection I should NOT have directed my comment ad hominin (at the person) but at their behavior. I should have said they “acted in a foolish and childish manner”, not that THEY are foolish and childish. In the days of my youth I myself was called much worse by my elders for getting in much less trouble than Torres and Norton did, but I guess I failed to take into consideration how hypersensitive to criticism some people are nowadays. But that is my conundrum Sam J. As Forest Gump’s mother said “stupid is as stupid does.” In other words doing stupid things is what makes you stupid. So in this case it is hard to separate the people from the behavior. I simply cannot find it in myself to say anything complimentary about what Jose Torres and Kayla Rae Norton, et al did that day or how they comported themselves in court. The whole thing was so ill conceived and ill advised and poorly executed that it horrifies me. So on further reflection I am going to stick by what I said, warts and all. Like Mom and Dad were wont to say “if we didn’t care we wouldn’t get upset when you misbehave, we’d just let you run wild.” Had Torres and Norton asked my advice before the fact I would have implored them not to do it out of concern for their safety. No matter what angle I look at it from its looks to me like something that was doomed to end badly. Now Jose and Kayla Rae are in prison and their children are likely living with relatives or in foster care. As Dr. Phil would say. “How’d that work for you?” So if you or any others find my criticism to be belittling, a stinging rebuke, good! Fucking wise up! I hope and pray it makes you every other WN learn from the errors of these people and not repeat them. I’ll support people who fight back but I sure can’t support anyone who insists on fucking up so badly that it puts them beyond any help of their friends and allies. They make anybody who tries to support them look like fools. The government is on the side of the Dindus and SJWs so right-wing white folks in the aggregate need to fight smart, pick their battles with the savvy of the Viet Cong, or else they are all doomed for certain. Plus if you’re going to be revolutionary you’ve got to be tough, keep your composure and take your punishment like a man, otherwise you’re not going to get any kind of respect, that’s just the way it is. If you can’t see any of this, then yes, you are stupid Sam J. and we probably shouldn’t waste any more time on you. Time to stop feeding the trolls.
3. Keep in mind that Kayla Rae Norton confessed to her crimes in open court:
“With tears in her eyes, Norton spoke directly to several of the family members who were at the party. “What happened to you was horrible. Mother-to-mother, I can't imagine what it was like to explain what that word means to a child. I accept responsibility for what I did, but that was not me,” the 25-year-old mother said fighting back tears in her eyes.” http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/28/man-woman-sentenced-for-terrorizing-partygoers-with-confederate-flag.html
But since this spontaneous declaration came after conviction and sentencing it just came across as insincere crocodile tears, a vain attempt to escape punishment and served to prejudice her case in the public eye all the more. How do you defend this sort of behavior then without looking like a thug or a goof yourself? You don’t!
4. Sam J.: “It's perfectly reasonable to defend yourself with a shotgun if people are throwing stones at you. It may not be liked by the state and fit in with their crush the White Man stance but it's reasonable.”
No it’s not. Not if you can drive away. Torres and Norton were in a truck when the blacks ostensibly threw rocks at them so according to the law, not to mention our common notions of what’s moral and right, they could have and should have driven away and thereby avoided being hurt or getting involved in a fight where someone could get killed. There was no need for them to point guns. So when they refused to drive away and pointed shotguns at the party goers they committed an assault and could no longer credibly plead that they were acting in self-defense. Let’s not forget this was video recorded too. Lesson learned. White people are persecuted when they defend themselves today, so whites need to have a good understanding of the law of self-defense if they want to stay out of court and out of prison. Is that fair? No. That is just an unfortunate fact of life in 21st century America. The system IS against you, so you need to understand how to work the system. At the same time if you act like you are looking for a fight you’re not going to get any sympathy from the jury of your peers either. Courts typically come down hard on people who used or threatened the use of lethal force when they had ample opportunity to walk away from the fight. “Think like a criminal, act like a responsible citizen” – James LaFond. For your homework read “Deadly Force – Understanding Your Right to Self-Defense by Massad Ayoob 2014.
5. Sam J: “There's another situation that's very similar. American stick Man. He was just released. Why. He wasn't thrown under the bus like you guys did these people.”
Well yeah, conservative whites across the country could see a world of difference between what Jose Torres et al did and what Stickman did. Stickman was video-taped acting in self-defense and the defense of others at the Berkley Trump rally. The Communist “Antifa” thugs were video recorded committing assault and battery against Trump supporters, pepper spraying old people, and the Berkley police were video recorded doing nothing to stop those Communist thugs. That made it all a lot easier to support Stickman for pounding the Antifa thugs over the head with a stick and why people contributed thousands of dollars to his legal defense crowd fund. That’s why the Berkley authorities thought it wise to drop the charges against Stickman. They didn’t want to be put on trial themselves.
6. Sam J.:“I think it's extremely likely that if they had a better lawyer they wouldn't be in place they are in. If they would have had the same support as stickman I bet they wouldn't be serving 35 years. I sincerely doubt they thought or anyone thought that they would get so much time. It's an outrage. It seemed to even stun the Niggers.”
Yeah no shit Sam J. Good lawyers and a well-organized legal defense can make all the difference in the world. Don’t rely on a court appointed lawyer to keep you out of prison. In this case it appears their lawyers couldn’t even plea bargain their sentences down. Not doing things that would prejudice your case in the eyes of a jury of your peers and judge passing sentence on you helps too. Don’t forget there was probably mostly white people on the 15 person grand jury that indicted Jose and Kayla and the 12 person petit trial jury that convicted them. Local Douglas County white people couldn’t get behind what they did. The blacks probably thought they hit the jackpot when the “crackers” got sold down the river, eh? Showed them! That’s why I say that the Georgia flag rally was ill-conceived, poorly thought out. Well, lesson learned.
7. Do I think that Jose Torres and Kayla Rae Norton et al belong in prison? Oh hell no! They don’t deserve that even if they did act like prize fools and walk into a trap they helped the establishment construct for themselves. Like I wrote before, their sentences are excessive, unjust and racist. They should just get probation and community service. They should be put into the kind of “restorative justice” programs that the courts typically put black perpetrators into for offenses like this. There is supposed to be equal treatment under the law in this country, but of course there is not. This bullshit of punishing whites for minor crimes but letting black criminals skate on felonies has got to stop. Unfortunately it’s not going to stop any time soon, is it? Not so long as the Leftists control the legal and corrections systems. Torres and Norton need to have their prison sentences reduced drastically, or commuted. That’s going to take a lot of money and a lot of work by some very high-powered law firms now, so Jose and Kayla may be beyond help their friends and family can provide. Torres and Norton should also apply for pardons from the Governor of Georgia and from President Trump, but considering how badly they prejudiced their cases, that too might be out of reach. Again that’s why I say don’t do that! Some things can’t be fixed once they’re broken.
8. So what did this “Respect the Flag” demonstration accomplish? White people in Douglas County Georgia were humiliated and black hooligans were empowered. Is that what was supposed to happen? I don’t think so. Should whites stop holding “Respect the Flag”, Southern Pride and other right-wing political demonstrations? Of course not. Sometimes you have toot your own horn, show your pride and exercise your group solidarity. You just have to recognize these are dangerous times and the deck is stacked against you. So use some sense in planning out and preparing for your activities. Avoid being drawn into fights that you can’t win or will get the cops called on you. Be smart, don’t be stupid. The mistakes that really get you in trouble are the ones you keep making over and over again.
9. Last but not least, consider this. Coach LaFond is a hard ass as we have said. Everybody knows that. That’s one of the things we love about him. When you ask Coach LaFond to evaluate your technique, be prepared to hear his frank opinion. If he tells you you’re all fucked-up and need a lot of work, well that’s the way it goes. If he thinks you’re not keeping your game face on and exhibiting appropriate fortitude when you get hit, you’re going to hear that too. You can accept his criticism and use his advice to improve yourself or you can reject it all and solicit advice somewhere else. Likewise when you ask his opinion on other matters you are going get what he thinks, not necessarily what you really want to hear. In this case Coach asked me to weigh in, but the same applies, everyone is free to accept or reject my evaluation as it stands. Again, you don’t need our permission or approval to do anything.
“If you win, you won’t have to explain...If you lose, you shouldn’t be around to explain!” – Adolf Hitler
Jeremy, thanks for doing such a thorough job on this.
Sam J., thanks for taking the losing side in this forum. Jeremy would not have been forced to make such a good case without your dogged participation. Also, Sam J., email me at email@example.com and let me know which one of my books you'd like and I'll send you the PDF version.
Now, just to set the record straight, if I were the judge in the Torres-Norton case what would my sentences have been?
Mister Torres, you are a disgrace to your race and I will not have you occupying valuable prison space. You are, until the age of 50, forbidden to own or use firearms and must cut the lawn and otherwise attend to the landscaping of your victims' home until retirement—that's age 65.
Miss Norton, a cute young thing like you must not associate with the likes of this fellow. You are forbidden to date him henceforth. I understand he has supported you financially, so I shall shoulder some of this burden by hiring you to clean my house, my built in pool, and also to wash my Cadillac on hot summer days. Be sure to dress appropriately.