Are the rules for a primal man different than for any other kind of man? Even a primal man can suffer for his mistakes.
And if you're not advocating making a bunch of single mothers as is done in some other cultures, but rather creating a solid family, how can you tell from initial scan what a woman's worth is?
Her values, honor, intelligence?
Not the part of her that puts on the makeup to impress, but the part of her that wakes up without it, who faces herself yet another day in her life according to the quality of her conscience.
How would you determine if children with her would be a good decision for the next 20 years of your life, from looking around or having one conversation? The mask doesn't come off quickly enough for most of us to avoid joining the league of the divorced, and luck plays a part as well...
And if you're supposed to do this every time you enter a public room somewhere, then where is the loyalty to the first family you have made, and how well are you protecting it? How should a woman be respected and considered ideally, when she is a REAL partner, not some useless shopper who uses you for her own status elevation?
What would you teach your hypothetical daughters about growing up to be women, and how would you honor the woman and daughters who contribute to your life daily?
Pardon me, but my small woman's brain does not comprehend this, seriously, sarcasm aside.
Can any man on this site answer any of these questions for me?
Because speaking for myself, I chose the father of my children badly, so I know the cost which lasts for decades, and I know how fragile situations and relationships can become, how things can change, though we do the best we can with what we have at that moment. I know that looks and attractions can mislead us greatly.
By nature, I never factor(ed) in the size of a man's wallet nor put my love aside for material considerations (just not corporate or materialistic), so no need to add that to an answer to my questions. (I'm not putting myself on a pedestal here. I have my shortcomings and am rigidly unable to compromise certain needs, without which I can't get attracted, no matter how much I may want to; it may be an immaturity, but I seem stuck with it.)
I understand that men are highly visual, as La Mano commented to me, though I can have no real understanding of how this works in life or in this article, since I am not wired this way. So this is also contributing to my difficulty here, along with my experiences.
I think dog breeders pay better attention to mating than people, and the character and temperament of the two dogs in consideration figures into their calculations, not just their appearance.
Maybe I've read into the article more deeply than intended, but these questions have troubled me for a long time and reared their heads as I read. So maybe they should be considered on their own merit, to some degree independently of the piece. I want to learn from people who have learned something the hard way, as well as from those whose ship came to the right shore. Thank you for any thoughts you may want to share.
Lili
Here's gonna be a place that I disagree with JL to some degree, probably ... You're not going to walk into ANY room and stand there and find the woman that's most worthy to bear your children, the woman with the right worth, values, honor, and intelligence, as you accurately put it. You can't look at her and tell.
You might be able to look at her and tell she's NOT the one in 5 seconds, and move on to the next, just as a woman can do the same for a man. But you can't just tell at a glance while the barroom door is still swinging from your entrance if she IS the one.
I don't know about the "primal" male, if that means a club and dragging by the hair. But a good man is going to want to see, and in this order, I think:
1. Confidence - That the woman is in control of her environment AS FAR AS SHE CAN BE, that she is comfortable where she is, that she knows how to handle obnoxious pushy guys, that she knows when to stay and when to leave, and she knows how to make a guy stay that's she interested in, without being slutty. Not clingy, not needy, not whiney, not drunk, not stoned. There's WAY too many of those around.
That's the very first thing a man looking for a woman will notice, before he really registers the size of her bust or hips.
2. Attractive - And I don't mean beauty queen or a Frazetta fantasy, I mean a woman who obviously takes time to take care of herself and do the best she can with what she's got. Some of the most attractive women I've ever known would never meet any standards for beauty or even prettiness, but they cut their hair well, they wear flattering clothes, and they SMILE. They make eye contact with a man in whom they're interested, and smile. Being "in shape" using whatever shape you've got helps - skinny, big, long, short, doesn't matter as long as that "confidence" is there that "I'm happy with what I've got". One of the most attractive women I know has a boyish (small bust, narrow hips, small butt) figure, a sort of asymmetrical face, her teeth aren't all that straight, and her nose a bit crooked. But she wears clothes that show her in-shape body to advantage, her hair is done up nicely, and she looks you right in the eye and SMILES right from the eyes every time she sees you, and she convinces you that she means it.
3. If he's a good man, he's going to focus on YOU. If it's the right woman, you're going to focus on HIM. He wants to know that while this ritual is sorting itself out, that you are only concentrating on HIM, you are boosting HIS self-image, you've dropped everyone else, you're interested in what HE is doing and who HE is. That's irresistible to a guy. If he can't reciprocate with that, if he's indicating that he's going to be spreading his Alpha Male Seed far and wide no matter what you do, then he ain't that one, and you go to the next.
I guess that's enough about the first hour that you've met someone ... still not in the territory where all the questions you ask are answered, but there's lots of time and lots of bandwidth for that .... ! And this is just from one guy, there are 3.5 billion more out there but you watch, most of the ones you'll see think like this ....
What you are asking is probably decided on a below cognitive level and then rationalized after the fact. For what it is worth, here goes: if you are not initially sexually attracted to them you never will be. This cannot be negotiated. The couples that are not having sex are couples where one person is in the relationship for reasons other than sexual attraction. Don't be in that relationship.
Most successful pairings involve one emotional partner and one non emotional; one person who likes to spend money and one who saves. I guess it would be partners who balance each other out. If you are a less emotional girl you will probably like a more emotional guy and the associated drama. And vice versa. Two emotional people are not going to last. Two stoics will be bored.
Also you don't get to coast. I don't expect my wife to be a Victoria secrets model. She doesn't expect me to have bill gates money. However both must try. Men ultimately want respect and women love. All of this goes to the idea that one is not going to make these determinations in a short amount of time.
I agree with LaMano you can determine who is NOT far easier than who is. Probably because our initial screening is based upon sexual attraction and is rationalized after the fact. However I automatically would pass on beautiful women who were materialistic because I am far too lazy to keep that type of women. So it's not all "whore moans" and there is some thinking involved Good luck on your search for a decent guy.
I didn't get the same notions from the article as you did. My take was find the Women for you in every setting and aggressively go after her. I think the babies, Marriage part were not necessary part of the plan. The plan was sex.
"...How would you determine if children with her would be a good decision for the next 20 years of your life..."
Why should any Man get married these days? You lose all rights when you do so. It's like a deal where you put three bullets in a six shooter spin the barrel, put it to your head and pull the trigger. If you don't blow your brains out you win a million dollars. Sure if you find the right Woman you can have a great life but if she gets bored or decides to "find" herself then...the bullet and the odds are 50%. That's not good odds. Casinos have much better odds and you always lose there.
This has all been done before. In Rome they passed the same no fault divorce laws and Men eventually refused to get married for the exact same reasons. It got so bad the government started taxing bachelors. Then the barbarians came and none of the Men found that there was anything they felt was worth fighting for.
Sparta ruled for hundreds of years but were defeated because they ran out of Spartans. The Men kept up to their part of the deal but Women refused to have children so they were ruined.
Disagree with Sam J.'s position on "why should a man get married". Sounds like experience based on a bad personal situation.
The dindus are in the shape they're in mostly because 85% of them are born outside a marriage, there's no father around, and they're being raised in a matriarchal household (JL nails this one when talking about the verbal, group, and emotional responses of the predatory gang on the street).
We don't want to go that way. The key is picking the right partner. The man should (has to) do things he wouldn't do for his woman if he was just following his spinal instincts - he needs to give her security (personal and material), he needs to give her exclusivity, both of which are against his selfish tendencies, the tendencies he'd have if he were just living in a hunting camp with other men.
In return, the woman needs to recognize that Sex is very much higher on the man's list of important things in his life than it is on HER radar. He will want to have sex much more often than she will, so she's going to have to buckle down and compromise and make it fun and often, just like he's going to have to compromise his desires to keep his money to himself for stuff he wants and go ogling and strutting around other women.
If the man and woman can't do that, it's not going to work. But we owe it to ourselves not to act like a pack of gorillas - that's one advantage we have over them; impulse control. Not always fun, but necessary.
"...How would you determine if children with her would be a good decision for the next 20 years of your life, from looking around or having one conversation? The mask doesn't come off quickly enough for most of us to avoid joining the league of the divorced, and luck plays a part as well...
And if you're supposed to do this every time you enter a public room somewhere, then where is the loyalty to the first family you have made, and how well are you protecting it? How should a woman be respected and considered ideally, when she is a REAL partner, not some useless shopper who uses you for her own status elevation?..."
I think when Women talk about them being honored and cherished about a cousin I have. There's a lot of long term articles on how Women today sleep around and then when the baby clock starts ticking they find some guy who's not an aggressive fellow in the Women's thirties or so and them marry him. Many times she gets 2.2 kids and then divorces him. That's my cousin(he's not divorced though). Now mind you I'm not saying he has no courage or is a dweeb at all. He's a very strong Christen involved in the church and he's a handsome guy. Not a fat guy and speaks well. He's even an architect. You would think girls would snap him up but they didn't. His wife lived in New York city for a good while and worked for a big magazine publisher. No kidding, think Cosmos, Vogue, that caliber. She leaves there comes back to his small Southern town and snares him. Now you know working for that type magazine she slept with lots and lots of guys. Turns out she can't have kids and they adopt two.
He didn't deserve this. He came from a family of four and doesn't even get to pass on his genes. So the type Man that Women say they want is passed over and his line is wiped out.
So Women say they want respect and a decent guy but that's not who they fuck. They fuck the guy that walks in the room, as James stated, and goes after the girl he wants.
If you want to read about such things one good place is,
heartiste.wordpress.com
there's many others. If you want to read even more heartless truths about Women read "The Book of Pook"
bookofpook.neocities.org
I think Women have become a decivilizational influence on our society. Huge numbers of White Women voted for Hillary even though war with Russia would have really been pushed were she to win. Women refuse to listen to any reasonable advice about mass immigration and how Dindus are a plague. They talk equality, equality but rarely put in the mass of work it takes to be successful. It's not that they aren't smart or capable it's that since they're given a lot of leeway when they're young and cute they slack. This is perfectly ok if they're going to be mothers and raise kids but they don't want to do that now or at least do that if they're going to have a husband that also wants a wife to help him out.
I goofed. I meant to link the "Book of Bonecrker" not Pook although Pook is ok too but not as evil as Book of Bonecrker.
no-maam.blogspot.com/2004/01/book-of-bonecrker.html
Its seems pretty obvious after the observation of the last three centuries that to have a functioning and self sustaining society you cannot allow the masses of people, male or female, to choose their own mates. Dating is utterly ridiculous. Maybe this was a fun game to Boomers but its the dawn of the dead for the following generations.
Having the future of your people depending on the roll of the dice, that two atomized and unconnected individuals who are both now as worthless as their respective genders have ever been in any time in human history and produce even replacement level children, is insanity. To have this in a forced multi-cultural society is suicide.
A healthy culture is supposed to do this or help this along. Our culture has collapsed.
We are in The Waste Land...
Sam J.,
I was very grown, well into my 30s when I got a clue about the things you mention. Since I got the short and very ugly end of the stick, and growing up was not peaceful in my home; I thought originally that women generally suffered, and the men got off easy.
Then, as a single-again woman, I began to make some male friends, and over time, learned that women do some very ugly things to men. They don't keep their end of the agreement. They reject in ways that would have had me running for the hills while the men have told me that they stayed umpteen years past such incidents.
Since talking to James and reading his stories, my innocence about this subject is gone, though my jaw still drops in disbelief regularly in our continued conversations, hearing his stories. I don't know what woodwork these female creatures crawl out of.
Which brings me to the following: I know that at least Lynn and I are not these types of women. Lynn has chosen well, and I did not; still, we do not represent the negative stereotypes. We clearly love our men, enjoy them, attend to them, and take care of them.
My history, which I have to fight regularly, causes me to grapple with difficult questions, painful to me. This mental grappling is one of the only things I can do to fight it. Like Piglet, I am a small creature in a big world, anxious and fearful on a semi-regular basis, angry at what feminism stole from me when I grew up with its promises in the 70s.
I stay inside a lot, avoiding the abrasive Baltimore world, here because I have grandchildren and someone I love very much. I have no illusions about this world, and I am also fragile because of it.
In spite of this, I am open to appreciating good men and my questions are heartfelt. I want to know how well things CAN work for some. I know all about the failures, first, second, and third hand. There have got to be men who fought for something better than what they got, just as I have, who finally realized that they are good people, regardless of their partner's shortsightedness, and that there are others like us. For that I hold hope.
More to all of your responses:
I think the decivilizing influence of women is apparent in what is going on in Sweden, Germany, and female voters here. I even agree with an African friend’s comment that women need to be reined in, that many of them are out of control.
But evidently there’s been a lot of brainwashing going on in some parts of the world, it has taken hold, and like Pandora, there’s no way to get the evils back in the box.
So that leaves us basically nowhere. A number of mudsharks have moved in on just my street alone, imitating their dindu sisters who mostly dress like whores, yell like a fishwife, and smack their terrorized kids' heads off. This place sucks more than others. So many ugly people, inside and out, and stupid too. So yes, we’re on a decline as a civilization. JL nails this as well.
I had a conversation with an older, married, Hispanic student on campus in my first year. I’ve never forgotten his words: I depend on you, you depend on me, and this is the only way it can work. I hope he had a good life.
It makes all the sense in the world to live interdependently as men and women. This seems to be in short supply, basically because of people’s selfishness. My old-world dad made a point of teaching me to share when I was just a toddler. Kids need to be taught this, as well as to be prepared for a lot of untrustworthy people at large whom they need to NOT give to. That it's o.k. to protect themselves from large entities that could care less about them. But this has to be a major starting point.
How could materialism, the willingness to be a workaholic wage slave, putting the kids in daycare, etc., be possible without selfishly worshiping The God of Things rather than attending to your family? How could something like TV dictate (lack of) family values otherwise?
There are two mindsets, and they conflict.
One mindset is the sexual free market, what you see with dogs. There is no loyalty there, as an absolute. The best you can get is physical intimacy.
Another is patriarchy and traditional relations. There, you do figure for values, etc. You do that because you are not looking for a woman for yourself, but for your son. And you do it not by looking at her ass but by looking at her family-their reputation, how they get along, etc.
You might give the kids veto power based on attraction if you're smart, but it's not the primary consideration.
I don't know what the hell a primal man is-does he hunt his own food, make his own clothes, build his own house, forge his own tools, engineer his own vehicle? We all live in a society, one way or another.
"Primal Man" ... in this context, you've got to sift through JL's books and articles since he's the one defining the term. What would he mean?
Can't be "Cave Man" since Cave Men don't stock grocery shelves and ride hybrid city buses and publish Internet blogs, so the make-your-own-spear thing can't be it.
Related to "Taboo You"? Whole book about that which I highly recommend, lots of thoughts about a man who won't put up with the crap that a dysfunctional society, determined to emasculate him if it can, lays on top of his life.
If I had to distill what I understand it to mean down into 50 words or less, I'd say it's a guy who Is Not Going To Put Up With Any Shit. That doesn't mean he's rude, or looking for trouble, or a bully. He can be a very nice fella. But he's NOT going to tolerate Shit from street predators, or from women who want to use him, or hypocrites that want to employ him for only their OWN purposes, or employees that want to diddle and laugh at him, or authority figures who want to bully him because he's their Food. He'll pay a price for that, but he will be his OWN man, even as he lives in society.
I think that will make a difference in the way he looks for a woman. And a woman would have to understand that that's who he is, and not try to change it ("Oh, WHY are you being so cruel and not giving that poor man a dollar? Here, I'll give him five ....").
"...I had a conversation with an older, married, Hispanic student on campus in my first year. I’ve never forgotten his words: I depend on you, you depend on me, and this is the only way it can work. I hope he had a good life.
It makes all the sense in the world to live interdependently as men and women..."
Agreed.
I think a lot of the problems are that Women can make off with the kids and a lot of loot if they...feel like it. Now some Men are total pieces of shit but most provide for their families best they can. Their part of the deal is that they do. Women are not living up to their part. Zsa zsa Gabor had it all figured out. She said Men needed, a clean place to live, adequate sex and three meals a day. Another added that wives shouldn't complain about more than five different things in one day. We can't even that. Those should be the minimum things required and if Men don't get that they should be able to divorce and take the kids with them.
I would start a new wedding license based on these principles that is NOT no fault. To divorce you would have to prove fault. If Women want no fault divorce they could have it but good luck getting Men to agree to getting married.