Yosemite Sam writes: "It's really not even the White Man vs. the Indian. It's that civilization however flawed is closer to reality than "if we don't rip out hearts then the sky God will not send rain". The structure of civilization forces you to, however irrationally, try to at least come closer to some sort of manageable truth. A civilization doesn't necessarily preclude uncivilized people living in the midst of it so just having a civilization doesn't solve all problems. It does set a standard to meet even if no one lives up to it"
That's a bit like Mel Gibson's Catholic stereotype (denial) ... recalling Sam's 'civilization' was burning heretics alive (e.g. Joan d'Arc) while the people he's putting down were the first people in the world (Maya) to develop a zero mathematical concept which didn't come to Europe until 400 years later with the arrival of the Moors in Spain via Arabia who imported a zero concept developed fully 100 years later than the Maya. Yosemite Sam, historically speaking, you're civilization is an ethnocentric primitive. If it weren't of a mind to destroy practically everything in sight with putting explosive powder into a metal tube and taking aim, who knows what direction human intelligence might have taken... which brings up this next:
White Lady from the Cannabis Coast says: "To achieve a basic understanding of quantum mechanics would take a moderately talented person about 10 years of mathematics studies and 2 years of dedicated physics studies, in a reasonably functional public school setting. You need arithmetic, geometry, algebra, trigonometry, and differential and integral calculus, as well as some early linear algebra, learning to work with matrices. Once you have a solid footing in algebra, you can begin the physics course and proceed simultaneously, saving the heavier physics until you have developed the math, starting with Newtonian laws of motion, simple harmonic motion, electro-magnetism, fluid dynamics and optics, and only then you can begin to appreciate the wave-particle duality of light, and then dig in to the subatomic particles and see what quantum physics is all about. Then you can try out the special theory of relativity (but not the general theory) and get an idea of what Einstein was talking about with that e=mc2 equation. All this can be done by high school graduation, again assuming a moderately talented kid and decent public school resources. I did it, it was fun. I did a little physics in college too, and I can tell you it gets a lot harder pretty quickly, right alongside the math"
Ok, so White Lady has put up her high school education to expressly pontificate: "Around where I grew up, the drug of choice is cannabis, and some of these stoners like to sit around and say stuff like "It's all relative, and we are all like, made of star dust and shit." These are the people who like to get their minds blown by weed and physics, and like to make sweeping statements about what primitive people knew about quantum mechanics"
Let's check that out against theoretical physicist David Boehm: "Native Americans had developed sophisticated concepts of how the world works centuries before the breakthroughs of western physicists. What they also had, that western physicists didn't, were verb-based languages suitable for describing the dynamic interactions within the world of quantum physics. It wasn't too far into the 20th century that Heisenberg lamented the limitations of noun-heavy western languages in explaining physics.
“Meanwhile, out on the fringes of science, a Yale man named Benjamin Whorf threw himself into the study of Hopi and other native languages. His work revealed a unique language structure quite dissimilar from Indo-European languages, but strikingly capable of describing the dynamic world of quantum physics. He eventually suffered the fate of one who was ahead of his time—i.e, the slings and arrows of others who put great effort, but little actual understanding, into trying to discredit him.
“One of the most brilliant physicists of the 20th century, David Bohm, a colleague of Albert Einstein and Krishnamurti, upset the scientific apple cart when he moved beyond the Theory of Relativity and quantum physics to define a whole new paradigm of physics and consciousness, one that bolstered the theories of Whorf and mirrored the Hopi worldview.
“It was near the end of his life when Bohm was able to complete the circle between modern physics and ancient knowledge. Just before his death in 1992, he attended the first ever meeting between linguists, western physicists and Native American scholars and elders. At that conference, it became apparent for the first time that Native America and modern science had a lot more in common than anyone ever dreamed” [description of a Dellaflora film “The Language of Spirit”]
Entirely independently of this preceding, Karl Schlesier, PhD and professor emeritus of anthropology had arrived at identical conclusion in the 1980s when he matched some of Boehm’s theoretical work to Cheyenne shamanism in his book “The Wolves of Heaven” [concluding chapter]
I’ll go back to my wigwam now…
I forgot to mention plenty of physicists like to burn too, they say the goofiest things. Let's just say it's true that persons of color developed the zero sooner than the pale face, what did they do with it? The Maya had no wheel, no arched structures, no space shuttle. Don't look now, but there's a movie coming out about a brilliant mulatta that made the moon landing possible, I am sure it will win a raft of Oscars. And I don't mind being called white, but nice try.
There is no present, only past, near future, and far future,I never needed math to understand this concept, my term was 4 dimension of crazy, back to my wigwam.
I have come to believe that primitive man had a more solid understanding about basically everything. I think their knowledge was bred out between then and more recent scientific discoveries when their cultures were wiped out and replaced with civilized slave/peasant societies.
As Yakub, the big head, receded into sub conscious, the angel spake, pointing to the abyss, view briefly or risk insanity. This is the process of creation!
Perhaps warrior poets would make good scientists.
Crazy Horse was really good at subjective/objective entanglement.
Of course, high energy particles are just bird tracks. Tomato, tomato.
Best to know the birds. They have been at this a lot longer.
I tried science back in the day. Ended up trying to tutor retarded bluebloods in college. I was eight years old.
Caltech, Westpoint, Ivy league crap. Scholarships faded.
Well, the bird kept flying. What could anyone do but stay entangled?
I guess when that appears separate from one lifetime that looks like the weather.
"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: No ordinary man could be such a fool." - George Orwell
“Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.” - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
“Whatever happens, we have got The Maxim gun, and they have not.” - Joseph Hilaire Pierre René Belloc, The Modern Traveler (1898)
So what you are saying Lynn is that the people who invented the concept of “zero” were able to use this knowledge to accomplish…nothing. Well that’s what zero is, isn’t it? It is nothing. An empty space. Symbolized by drawing a hole in the ground, a circle. Gosh, how was Western Civilization able to accomplish anything at all without the ability to visualize nothingness? Dredging up a handful of meager, and largely alleged, accomplishments by tribal non-whites just serves to make them look all the more pathetic when to compared to the civilization built by white Europeans. It’s like somebody trying to compare their high school letter in track to Usain Bolt’s Olympic gold medals (Hey, let’s not forget Carl Lewis either- Go USA!). Yeah we get it Mr. West, you don’t think too much of the accomplishments of white civilization. What you’re telling us is not much different from what we’ve heard before from any number of white Leftists over the decades. Metaphorically speaking what the Lefties have been telling us is that because THEY think we painted our house an ugly color, we ought to burn it down and sleep in the yard to assuage the guilt THEY think we ought to feel about it. Well thanks, but no thanks for that advice. Actually a surprising number of us whites aren’t anywhere near gullible and self-loathing enough to buy into that line of thinking.
I have no beef with white or brown, yellow or black, I'm white,feel absolutely no guilt, keep a open mind lest you wind up on someone's spear. Mobys Dick!
"...heretics alive (e.g. Joan d'Arc)..."
I think they burned her as a witch and by God she may have been. Have you ever read anything about her? She was seriously freaky. Here's a peasant girl who convinces a bunch of priest that God is on her side. The give her extremely complicated religious questions to answer which she does. She convinces a King to give her an army with which she proceeds to kick the other sides ass. It's absolutely astounding. I have a book on her I must get around to reading it. Thanks for reminding me.